Mr. Maurer, you’re a passionate scientist and spent six months conducting analysis on the Worldwide House Station ISS in 2021/2022 with the Cosmic Kiss mission—together with extra-vehicular exercise. Now you might be in command of organising the LUNA Analog Facility in Cologne, the ESA and DLR simulation facility for future lunar missions. Are you happy with the tempo of this lunar method?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: I’m very happy with our LUNA moon coaching facility—I might even go so far as to say that it’s the most superior facility on the earth. Even NASA lately visited us in Cologne to conduct measurements right here. Its workers examined a brand new digicam right here which can be used on the moon—I used to be then allowed to check it within the excessive circumstances simulated right here. We’re very happy with that. We will even quickly be testing a brand new lunar station right here. You may think about a high-tech container during which we’ll spend weeks dwelling in practical circumstances. A tunnel will then join this container to the LUNA coaching facility. This additionally means that we are going to not depart these linked areas throughout the simulated operation—and due to this fact received’t see any daylight both. On the floor of the moon there’s excessive abrasive volcanic mud to cope with. Rock on the moon hardly strikes, since there is no such thing as a water and no wind both because of the lack of an environment. For this reason the form of the sand grains is sharp edged and in addition the sand could be very sticky, very like flour. Added to this are craters whose depth is tough to estimate and icy temperatures as little as 150 levels under zero. Within the shady areas of the moon, within the deep craters, into which daylight by no means penetrates, temperatures can plummet as little as 250 levels under zero. One other problem is the low-lying solar, which casts tough shadows. That is what awaits us within the polar area of the moon—and that is the place we intend to go.
That each one sounds very concrete – what are the remaining challenges?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: What we don’t have in the intervening time is our personal rocket and capsule. The problem this entails is that each the rocket and the capsule should be licensed for transporting folks. The particular consideration right here is that the capsule should return in some unspecified time in the future, and should not dissipate when it re-enters the Earth’s environment. That is because of the excessive pace and the frictional warmth that’s generated upon re-entry. Prior to now, we relied closely on worldwide engineering and partnerships right here. Nonetheless, it’s time for Europe to step up its resilience on this respect—this actually applies to a number of sectors, however aerospace is a key one.
“Even NASA lately visited us in Cologne to conduct measurements right here.”
Dr. Matthias Maurer, astronaut on the European House Company (ESA)
Mr. Roggendorf, you come from the world of mobility techniques, and but you might have lengthy been working in all domains: from the highway to house. How is it attainable, as a improvement service supplier, to reach coping with such a broad spectrum—not least in visionary initiatives with many unknowns?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: This broad spectrum is strictly what drives us and evokes us as engineers. In our interdisciplinary groups, for instance, a big proportion of builders have a background in aeronautic and aerospace know-how. These abilities assist us with a variety of technical challenges in a variety of industries. We’re presently growing an entire power system for satellite tv for pc purposes. The necessities in low-earth orbit are similar to these within the automotive sector, for instance with regard to temperature profiles or vibrations throughout a rocket launch.
Mr. Maurer, ESA is an aerospace company and has a really completely different setup to industrial firms. What methods of pondering and dealing are essential to permit folks to have the ability to truly reside and work on the moon someday?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: ESA operates with taxpayers’ cash, which implies that we use this cash in a really accountable method. It additionally means, nevertheless, that we face various forms and need to cope with delays that non-public firms in trade would not have to the identical extent. We regularly say: Let’s do a examine— after which a second and a 3rd. The purpose is to satisfy authorized necessities and to proceed very appropriately. The primary job of ESA is to specify the course, to outline applications, and to outsource them to trade. If the trade itself might outline targets and deal with them at its personal threat and with its personal capital, supported by ESA as a dependable anchor buyer, this will surely introduce extra pace and agility. And at this level, we additionally want extra gamers.
Mr. Roggendorf, how do you see the long run on this regard?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: We’ve got all the time had the drive to enterprise past the automotive trade and into different industries. It’s thrilling for us to mix data from completely different industries and to make a contribution with our engineering providers. Course of-efficient—from proof of idea and testing of bodily limits at an early stage, via to the quickest attainable method to an answer that’s prepared for sequence manufacturing.
“Particularly in pre-development phases I’ve to and wish to check the boundaries.”
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf, Director Vitality System at Porsche Engineering
In fact, analysis and progress can’t be achieved with out setbacks. As a improvement service supplier, how do you cope with failure? How do you reach boldly growing new applied sciences and on the identical time validating processes for purchasers?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: This relies fully on the stage of improvement and buyer expectations. There’s a Ferry Porsche quote that matches completely right here: “We’re not afraid of setbacks. Quite the opposite, we anticipate them. Should you don’t fail occasionally, then you definitely didn’t actually problem your self.” That is the motto that we apply to our work each day. As an engineer, I’ve to and wish to check the boundaries of what’s technically possible, particularly in pre-development phases. If every little thing all the time goes easily, then I’ve discovered too little. We’ve got to advertise an error tradition that enables errors to be made in these phases. In fact, that is completely different within the sequence section. At that time, we’ve to have a fully functionally dependable, error-free, and high-quality product.
Mr. Maurer, in manned house flight specifically, the reliability of a improvement is a matter of life and loss of life. How do you strike a stability between „higher secure than sorry” and the braveness to take dangers?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: So far, aerospace businesses have all the time carried out a particularly giant variety of exams so as to rule out as many errors as attainable earlier than launching a rocket—that is, in fact, very time consuming. And you may be taught quite a bit from it, specifically when one thing goes mistaken. Within the meantime, a brand new error tradition has taken root in aerospace because of the affect of trade: “Fail early, fail typically.” This occurs to a sure extent in large-scale rocket initiatives—a rocket explodes and workers cheer as a result of they weren’t anticipating a complete success within the first place. It’s laborious for me to think about that occuring at ESA, however it’s a course we have to take. In fact, solely so long as there aren’t any folks sitting in these rockets and nobody is harmed on the bottom. As quickly as we begin speaking about manned house flight, we will need to have an absolute zero-error coverage—and a dependable fallback system. If a rocket has an issue, the astronauts within the capsule are ejected and are available again right down to earth with the parachute. And this fallback system has truly already been wanted, and resulted within the astronauts touchdown safely.
To what extent can aerospace profit from industrial and industrial achievements by way of cost-effective manufacturing and worthwhile improvement timeframes? And what can house analysis particularly do for firms?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: I’m very eager on the thought of “spin-in”. That’s to say, to make sure that we incorporate industrial capabilities and improvements into aerospace initiatives. The automotive trade is so revolutionary and so quick in improvement that an unbelievable quantity of know-how is both already in use, virtually prepared for sequence manufacturing, or not less than within the drawer. I dream of opening this drawer and tipping its contents into the aerospace sector. The prerequisite for that is establishing a dialog between the 2 worlds. In any case, one thing has shifted by way of innovation drivers. Prior to now, the whole IT system needed to be developed for the Apollo mission. That was a driver of innovation, in case you take a look at the patents that emerged from that. Nonetheless, in at present’s aerospace, we’ve extremely established processes and make use of loads of heritage. Utilizing new applied sciences means overcoming new hurdles—and the applied sciences should be licensed. Because of this, we use very previous techniques and even older computer systems on the ISS. I hope that we are going to more and more introduce new know-how—and dialog, as we’re partaking in right here at present, is important for this.
Mr. Roggendorf, to what extent can trade and also you, as a improvement service supplier, profit from aerospace applications?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: The subject of fabric analysis is all the time very thrilling for us, and in addition considered one of Mr. Maurer’s pet passions. Traditionally, many high-end supplies from which trade has benefited have come from aerospace purposes. And that’s the place these two worlds are rising collectively. New enterprise areas are rising—we at the moment are additionally concerned within the satellite tv for pc sector, for instance. Historically, nearly each satellite tv for pc has been a one-off. The target now’s to see how such techniques will be standardized and constructed in a modular manner. This implies our expertise permits us to offer help within the industrialization of merchandise and thereby allow our prospects to scale up within the new enterprise areas.
Dr. Matthias Maurer: Autonomous techniques are additionally a significant situation that reveals an overlap. On Earth, the main target is on autonomous driving with synthetic intelligence. In house, we at the moment are additionally reaching a stage of visitors density during which particular person folks will quickly now not be capable to management the entire satellites. There are greater than 12,000 satellites in orbit, a few of that are now not lively and due to this fact now not controllable. So there are many wrong-way drivers up there in house, which we both need to sidestep or seize. These satellites have been managed by folks on Earth, however it will now not be attainable given the sheer variety of satellites. This management should be changed by synthetic intelligence – the satellites should use it to function autonomously. The terrestrial and cosmic challenges and questions are pointing in the identical course. Except for the truth that we don’t want a reverse gear in house. (laughs)
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: After we take into consideration autonomously managed satellites, the query of precision additionally arises. And we’ve loads of expertise with that. Within the automotive trade, we’re speaking about centimeters—for satellites, we’re speaking about many kilometers. Nonetheless, the intervention mechanisms are comparable. And we are able to additionally make a useful contribution to fleet management-given growing numbers—with our strategies and instruments within the areas of management and automation, and even synthetic intelligence.
Staying on this subject: Mr. Roggendorf, how can this information—for instance, with regard to improvement processes, digital check strategies or excessive integration—be utilized to aerospace initiatives?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: I feel these are precisely the strategies that should be used within the aerospace sector. Digital testing strategies are an incredible instance. We’re engaged on digital twins of total techniques. Let’s take a car battery for instance. By a digital twin and reside information transmission, we come to know and perceive the system in nice element throughout improvement. I can get probably the most out of it and prolong the service lifetime of the battery. Digital strategies and processes like these are, in fact, much more necessary in house. In any case, I can’t restore issues or refuel as simply. Each gram of gas and every little thing I’ve to carry up there prices an immense amount of cash.
Dr. Matthias Maurer: In actual fact, we additionally use VR know-how with twin fashions right here on the LUNA coaching facility, as a result of we can’t reproduce each gadget as a bodily mannequin. As a substitute, we put on VR glasses in our spacesuit and show completely different gadgets, measuring devices or one other house station so as to work together with them.
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: Should you take this concept in regard to the strategies a step additional, we make investments an excessive amount of effort in reaching end-to-end options – that’s, from the product definition to automation of necessities and the era of check circumstances with the assist of AI, to environment friendly analysis of reside evaluation information. Within the case of extremely individualized merchandise specifically, the place these improvement phases take a particularly very long time, we are able to turn into considerably sooner with an end-to-end toolchain.
One other frequent function of your two fields of exercise is the worldwide orientation. How necessary is the worldwide community?
Dr. Matthias Maurer: House flights is such an enormous endeavor, and no single nation in Europe can handle it alone. As already talked about, we in Europe as a complete will not be but able to 昀y our personal astronauts. We might do this by way of content material, however the financing is unresolved. We’ve got unbelievable strengths because of the large wealth of expertise of various European cultures and completely different fields of engineering experience. We are able to generate potential from this—and we are able to considerably broaden this potential by opening the doorways and dealing along with consultants who come from exterior the aerospace trade. It will allow us to place Europe within the pole place.
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: For us at Porsche Engineering, internationalization is essential and a key issue for our success. In Europe, we function various completely different places: other than Germany largely in Czechia and Romania. We even have a big check facility and an engineering hub in Italy. Our asset is the engineers, the brains of the operation. With the intention to appeal to the perfect expertise, probably the most motivated and extremely skilled engineers, cooperation with universities in varied areas of the world is extraordinarily necessary. We even have improvement places within the US and China. Above all, as a result of they’ve very completely different necessities for autos than in Europe. Due to our native presence, we perceive significantly better what the precise market wants. When it comes to connectivity alone, we’re coping with utterly completely different ecosystems, total app worlds on smartphones, significantly in China. Automobiles are merely used otherwise there. The precise concepts received’t happen to you whilst you’re sitting in an workplace in Germany. Along with the purely technical facet, intercultural cooperation is extraordinarily instructive and fruitful in regard to different methods of working.
“House flight is such an enormous endeavor, and no single nation in Europe can handle it alone.”
Dr. Matthias Maurer, astronaut on the European House Company (ESA)
Lastly, a private query for each of you: What drives you?
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf: It was clear to me at an early stage: I’ll turn into an engineer due to my ardour for know-how. I really like making an attempt issues out, growing issues, refining improvements. And that evokes me each day. We’ve got a extremely motivated staff to sort out and implement actually novel concepts collectively. I initially come from the power sector. It was all the time a matter of first integrating renewable energies into the grids and in the end enabling at present’s electrical mobility. My focus is on advancing new applied sciences for our planet. I additionally take a look at my youngsters, for whom I would like issues to go effectively afterward. That’s why I stand up each day and luxuriate in going to the workplace.
Dr. Matthias Maurer: As an astronaut, in fact, you might be somebody who’s led by your goals. All I would like is to gaze into the night time sky each night and to marvel at how a lot there’s nonetheless to find on the market. There are such a lot of locations the place I wish to go and the place I wish to be taught one thing. The basic query right here is: How did all that on the market come about? How did life come to Earth and the way did our photo voltaic system come about? Are we alone within the universe or are there different clever beings on the market? And the way may they reside? These questions have quite a bit to do with goals, but in addition with a way of journey and the drive to find new issues. Along with my enthusiasm for know-how as an engineer, from a science standpoint I’m fascinated by the truth that I’m allowed to do new experiments each day in house and look over the shoulders of the perfect researchers on the earth. That basically energizes me. After which there’s the dream of flying to the moon itself. We’re trying via the glass right here at an Apollo scenario—I want to go there. And one other motivation is to share data and encourage the subsequent era.
CV Dr. Matthias Maurer
Dr. Matthias Maurer was the second German ESA astronaut to fly to the ISS, as a part of NASA’s Industrial Crew Program within the fall of 2021. Throughout his 177 days in orbit, he carried out quite a few scientific experiments with researchers and companions around the globe.
CV Dr. Christoph Roggendorf
Dr. Christoph Roggendorf has been Director of the Vitality System division at Porsche Engineering since 2023. His primary areas of exercise embody electrical mobility, charging infrastructure, and HV techniques, akin to elements for battery storage and energy electronics.
Information
Textual content first printed in Porsche Engineering Journal, situation 1/2025.
Textual content: Heike Hientzsch
Photographs: Max Brunnert
Copyright: All photographs, movies and audio information printed on this article are topic to copyright. Replica in complete or partly just isn’t permitted with out the written consent of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. Please contact newsroom@porsche.com for additional info.
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